WDFW regulations Questions

[kevinb]

When do they get the new reg pamphlet out? On the website it still says 2007-2008. I have already bought my new license.

I would hope any day now. Theres been a few important rule changes that I'm aware of. They need to get it out ASAP. I'm might be wrong(and usually 'em)but I think all rule changes are as of May 1st. Don't quote me though. So hopefully the regs will be out before that.

[Smalma]

The new pamphelt (2008/2009) should be out by the last week of April. Remember that while we needed our new lic. April the new pamphlet does not go into effect until the 1st of May (the Regulation cycle or "year" rules from May 1 to April 30).

The major reason for that time frame of course our the salmon regulations. For the coming season they were not finalized until the end of the NOF/PFMC process which this year was April 11th. With the changes decided there still need to be put into the proper format and then send to the printers (100,000s of copies) and then distributed to the various dealers and sporting good outlets.

While I can understand the time line for the paper pamphlet I don't know why the electric copy is not available on WDFW's web site earlier which obviously must be finalized before it was sent to the printers.

Tight lines
Curt

[Rollin with Rolland]

Rollin with Rolland -
You will find that the adult winter steelhead (hatchery or wild) will be over 20 inches. However some of the males do mature an year early (called Jacks) and will be less than 20 inches - typcially 15 to 18 inches long.

Both the clipped Jacks (those over 14 inches) and adults would be length and you can keep both. However the two fish daily limit still applies and you must punch the adult fish (those over 20 inches) but not the Jacks (those under 20 inches). It is that punching requirement that is likely the source of your confusion.t

thanks Smalma...i emailed the WDFW at that's pretty much what they said, except not in such easy terms to understand. appreciate the input...i have seen one under 20, but it was a 17" wild jack on the skagit, promptly relaeased.

[Anglinarcher]

Thanks Mike Carey, i understand. Sometimes it's just so hard to get answers...
I'll have to start pestering fishregs@dfw.wa.gov a lot more.

You may find out that one enforcement officer will interpret one way, and another will another way. I advise that you try to use the e-mail as often as possible, because when the State answers with e-mail, you can print out proof. Word of mouth from them is not admissible in court.

I have wondered if the State makes the regs hard to understand for a reason. What is everyones thoughts on this? Why is it that they state has the disclaimer about the regs only being a summary and then they refer to the full code of regulations, that of course we don't have easy access to and could not understand if we tried?

[kevinb]

Thanks Mike Carey, i understand. Sometimes it's just so hard to get answers...
I'll have to start pestering fishregs@dfw.wa.gov a lot more.

You may find out that one enforcement officer will interpret one way, and another will another way. I advise that you try to use the e-mail as often as possible, because when the State answers with e-mail, you can print out proof. Word of mouth from them is not admissible in court.

I have wondered if the State makes the regs hard to understand for a reason. What is everyones thoughts on this? Why is it that they state has the disclaimer about the regs only being a summary and then they refer to the full code of regulations, that of course we don't have easy access to and could not understand if we tried?

No kidding. You could make an Excedrin commercial with the regs.interpretation:-&

[Fish On!]

I would agree also. The regs don't need to be a half inch thick. My god you better be signed up for the e-mail alerts that come out almost daily or you are screwed. Over the years they've tried to micro manage every body of water in our state to the point that it takes hours trying to figure out what's legal, what's open, can you camp, can you access, special regs, etc etc. I hate feeling like a criminal everytime I go outdoors. It's not that way in surrounding states and provinces.

I ask questions every time I see a F@W agent and they don't even know the rules. No wonder hunting and fishing interest has gone downhill in our state for the casual user.

I have a question that relates to catch and release. The Colville Reservation went to single barbless hook on April 1st. Did our state wide regs. go this route too? I suppose I could go download the new regs that just came out, but who wants to kill a couple hours on a Sat. night!.....

I would be curious to see how much money is taken in each year in fines and see how that's changed over the past 30 years. Is that public information and if so, how do you access it?

[kutthroatkilla]

I would agree also. The regs don't need to be a half inch thick. My god you better be signed up for the e-mail alerts that come out almost daily or you are screwed. I hate feeling like a criminal everytime I go outdoors.

I agree 100%. It's really crazy. You have to practically have to have an internet cell phone with up-to-date changes that happen daily. The regulations more than confusing most all the time, especially in the salt. It's tough I know.

KTK

[TheOne]

some of the rules the WDFW have are just plain stupid.but there are reasons the rules are there.and i respect that.

[Bscman]

I have wondered if the State makes the regs hard to understand for a reason. What is everyones thoughts on this? Why is it that they state has the disclaimer about the regs only being a summary and then they refer to the full code of regulations, that of course we don't have easy access to and could not understand if we tried?

All Washington state laws and administrative codes can be found online. The majority of municipalities also post their ordinances online as well.
You've got to understand that laws are written and open to interpretation, and constantly change. It's not the city, county, state, or nation's job to make sure we know the rules...it's only their job to make them available for you to find. A reasonable expectation is that you learn and abide by these rules. Unfortunately, most of us don't...

The regs. can definitely be confusing at times...especially for certain areas or bodies of water.
Our DFW has decided that different units/areas/etc. need different regulations because each unit is, indeed, different.
Is this good or bad? It's really hard to say. Statewide rules make it easier to understand the rules, but rules for certain areas can potentially lead to better protection and preservation of an area--at the cost of being harder to understand.

The only problem I see with the current reg. pamphlet is that you really need to read it ALL in order to understand it all. Only skimming across the trout section won't tell you everything you need to know for trout fishing....so you have to set aside a few minutes at the beginning of every season to fully read and understand the regs. You can't just grab your pole and go.
You have to look in the definitions, then under the specifics for the body of water you desire to fish. Then back to the definitions to understand the jargon. Then back again, to check if there are special size restrictions or if statewide rules apply.

That being said, I like having several sets of specific rules vs. a broad set of statewide regs.
I feel certain rivers and streams need different protection in order to ensure our juvenile steelhead aren't caught and killed (mistakenly, as trout)...or that certain species can be protected during certain months to ensure they can reproduce safely, without fishing pressure....or a myriad of other reasons.

Having to spend an extra hour with my nose in the book learning the regs is worth it to know the state is taking more interest is specific areas for conservation of certain populations (or at least attempting to)...almost "forcing" fisherman to more fully appreciate and respect our fisheries.

If we can take the time to complete hunters safety in order to legally hunt, or take driver's education in order to legally drive, why should it not be expected that we read, understand, and follow the regulations in the fishing pamphlet in order to fish?
The rules aren't there just to confuse us and get us into trouble--it's also to preserve populations and areas so the fish will continue to flourish for our children and their children to enjoy as well.

Just my thoughts...

[G-Man]

I recently requested an official interpretation of the "Rainbow" trout retention rules for Lake Washington from the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife. As some of you know Lake Washington is home to some very large rainbow trout and their various strains, most notably the Donaldson trout. A quick read of the regulations for Lake Washington may give you the impression that from July 1 to Nov 30 one may keep any rainbow caught. While the intent of the regulation is to protect native Steelhead from harvest, when all of the states rules and regulations are applied, as called out, one can be guilty of an infraction for keeping a "non-hatchery rainbow" of greater than 20". As there hasn't been a hatchery trout of any species planted in the Lake Washington system for many years, the likely hood of catching one is next to none at best. And if by some miracle you do catch a hatchery rainbow longer than 20" and decide to keep it, you had better mark it on your catch record as a Steelhead. I received a somewhat lame response from the State as I think the current definition of a Steelhead has changed and is now more vague than past definitions and leaves some room for interpretation. Here is what I received:

Statewide minimum sizes and daily limits apply, means you must follow
the Statewide Freshwater Rules & Statewide Freshwater Species Rules as
listed on pages 36 and 37 of the regulation pamphlet. During the July 1
through November 30 Trout season on Lake Washington, anglers are allowed
to retain any Rainbow Trout as part of the daily limit for trout. Any
time there is an open Trout season, anglers are allowed to retain
hatchery Steelhead, unless otherwise listed in the Additional Rules for
a particular body of water to release Steelhead or Rainbow Trout over
20".

The daily limit for trout in Lake Washington is 5, of which 2 may be
hatchery Steelhead (Steelhead are included in the trout daily limit).
When fishing with bait, all trout equal to or greater than the minimum
size are counted as part of the daily limit whether kept or released.

So, even if you catch an non-hatchery Rainbow trout over 20" long that is obviously not a Steelhead in Lake Washington, it would be safest to release it. If you rely on a wildlife official to be reasonable and interpret a rule or definition a certain way, your asking for trouble. Why the State doesn't just keep the "release all rainbows/steelhead trout greater than 20" long" a year round rule for Lake Washington is beyond me. I'd personally prefer to have more Bows in Lake Washington anyway, they fight and taste better than the Cutts, but that's jut my 2 cents.

[G-Man]

Lake Washington rainbow trout retention regulations take two! Having received a vague response from the state regarding the regulations for trout retention on Lake Washington, I restated my query and asked for a clearer answer. This is what I received:

You are correct that there are no hatchery rainbow trout or steelhead
released into Lake Washington and that the 20" maximum size for rainbow
was instituted to protect adult steelhead . Steelhead are not present
in the lake during the summer (July-November) when it is legal to retain
large (>20") rainbow. There is a healthy population of rainbow in the
Cedar River where they spawn and rear. The Cedar is only open for catch
and release fishing during the summer so the only legal harvest is in
the lake. We feel that the population can support the limited harvest
in the lake.

We are currently completing the third year of a study to confirm the
status of the Cedar River rainbow. We will use the results of this
study in the development of future fishing regulations for the Cedar
River and Lake Washington.

Steve Foley
District Fish Biologist
Mill Creek Regional Office
(425) 775-1311 ext 102


So, it does appear that one may keep a non-hatchery rainbow greater than 20" in length during the summer months in Lake Washington and that fish would not be considered a Steelhead. Mind you I wouldn't keep one that big unless it was injured and wouldn't survive if released. If you do fish the lake and intend on keeping a large rainbow, you may want to keep a copy of Steve's response on hand for any WDFW official you may encounter. I also encourage anyone fishing the lake that does catch an actual Steelhead during the summer months to let it go and report the encounter to the State. I'm hoping one day we will again all be able to fish the Cedar, as I did as a youth, and hook into the large native Steelhead that made it a popular fishery many years ago.

[AdsBot [Google]]

It seems as if we are always waiting for the new regs to be released (in print form). Anyone heard of a date for the publication for 2010-2011?

[Marc Martyn]

I recently bought my 2011 license online. It came today and I was going to put it in my wallet. I just about through away my 2010 license until I notice on the '11 license it was not effective til 4/1/11. On my new 2011 license the effective dates are from 4/1/11-3/31/12.

So, I am assuming to legally fish a March opener lake this year (2011), I still have to carry my old license, correct?

Why don't they make the effective dates start at the first day of the year through the last day of the year (1/1/10 through 12/31/10)?

[Amx]

correct on needing the 'old' license to fish the March date.

They use to have a Jan to Dec license, but went back to April to March. I forget why. Maybe something to do with the old 'traditional' lake's opener.

They can't have the regs pamplet come out on time - April 1st to coincide with the license dates - because they can't get their act together to time things out the same. Ya know, commitee meetings, regulations meetings, and all that stuff. They can change everything else, but can't change the 'meetings' to make sense out of it all. So they end up being late with the rules we have to fish by.

[Marc Martyn]

It seems I remember different dates (calendar year) also. It was many years ago and I too cannot remember why they changed it. If a person wasn't able to fish the previous year and wanted to fish the March opener, he would then have to buy two licenses in one calendar year. Kind of dumb.

[hewesfisher]

Marc - I think the primary reason is due to the statewide lowland lake opener in late April vs the March opener which covers far fewer lakes than the general season opener.

With the current Apr - Mar license dates, one gets to fish the general season opener, the winter lake opener and now the March opener on one license year even though it does not correspond to the calendar year.

You are correct, your license is not valid until 4/1/11, good thing you didn't toss your 2010 license yet.

I find myself in the same dilemma every time I get a new insurance card for any of my vehicles. The new one always comes early, and clearly states the effective dates, which are in the future, so I have to keep my old card until the new one becomes valid. I dislike having multiple cards in my glovebox, so I insist the new ones stay in the house until they become valid. Then I put the new one in and toss the old one.

[Marc Martyn]

Oh, and BTW, the vehicle permit is the same way. Same validation dates. This last November I was cleaning out the truck and almost, ALMOST threw away my parking permit for '10[omg]

[Amx]

On the vehical insurance card - make sure you NEVER forget to put it in your vehicle on or before the date it starts, or they won't let you into Canada, or a police officer can give you a ticket. I forgot one day and the Canadian customs agent/border person wouldn't let me in. That year's policy expired that day. I had to turn around and get a business have my ins. compay fax me a paper proving that I had ins. Never been asked for proof before at the border crossing. Sooooo, I'd rather have 2 cards in the glove compartment at the same time, then forget have have problems. The agent was nice and polite about it, as was I. lol And it was the Canadian agent that suggested asking a local business in Sumas to do the fax thing.

[Toni]

I just went and got my 2011 license and was wondering why I wasn't asked about getting a summer crab card?

[hewesfisher]

Sooooo, I'd rather have 2 cards in the glove compartment at the same time, then forget have have problems.

In my case, there would be a half dozen or so cards in the glove box. Not good IF I ever needed to produce one. Honest officer, one of these is current, just give me a couple minutes to find which one.