Rufus Woods..Want to know Everbodys opinion on Bait Use!!!!

[Lake Chelan Adventures]

I have been fishing Rufus Woods for over 15 yrs now and I am very concerned on what I am seeing there now..My last outing to Rufus we Caught numerous 16 to 18 inch triploids that had been released from the Pens, that had Bait hooks that had been swallowed with the leaders trimmed off.

This is a huge concern to me, as you all know these Rainbow will not Survive with Bait Hooks that have been swallowed..We did find 2 Dead Triploid Rainbows with leaders hanging from there throats and 1 fish was over 8lbs.

I do feel that we need to address these issues to Keep this trophy Fishery going..I am really upset at what I have found and would like to have input on what we as fisherman can do to protect these fish..The rules at Rufus State: that if you use Bait or Scent, even if you release your fish, that when you catch 2, your limit has been reached and you are done fishing..
Please give me some input on this issue for I would like to see a Change for the future of Rufus Woods..Thanks

[Big D]

Shoot the B-Tards on site.

[Toni]

I have been fishing Rufus Woods for over 15 yrs now and I am very concerned on what I am seeing there now..My last outing to Rufus we Caught numerous 16 to 18 inch triploids that had been released from the Pens, that had Bait hooks that had been swallowed with the leaders trimmed off.

This is a huge concern to me, as you all know these Rainbow will not Survive with Bait Hooks that have been swallowed..We did find 2 Dead Triploid Rainbows with leaders hanging from there throats and 1 fish was over 8lbs.

I do feel that we need to address these issues to Keep this trophy Fishery going..I am really upset at what I have found and would like to have input on what we as fisherman can do to protect these fish..The rules at Rufus State: that if you use Bait or Scent, even if you release your fish, that when you catch 2, your limit has been reached and you are done fishing..
Please give me some input on this issue for I would like to see a Change for the future of Rufus Woods..Thanks

Are you suggesting no bait then? Or absolutely no C&R?

The way I see it the people who use bait and release are not breaking the law. It could be an assumption that they were releasing and still fishing past their two.

[coretron22]

Why not make it Selective gear only?
no bait, no barbs, no trebles...
I've only caught trout on selective gear rules, even in lakes that don't require it. It's not as difficult as one might think if you haven't tried it, and gives the fish a chance both in the fight, and in it's potential for healthy survival after the fight.

[Gringo Pescador]

I like your idea coretron, and would support it gladly because I fish for trout that way anyway. But selling it to the masses would be difficult. Rufus is already better off than the rest of the state in the way that you can only catch two with bait instead of 5. Then there is the debate people put up that a swallowed hook will disolve (not starting that here or taking a side).

[Lake Chelan Adventures]

I have been fishing Rufus Woods for over 15 yrs now and I am very concerned on what I am seeing there now..My last outing to Rufus we Caught numerous 16 to 18 inch triploids that had been released from the Pens, that had Bait hooks that had been swallowed with the leaders trimmed off.

This is a huge concern to me, as you all know these Rainbow will not Survive with Bait Hooks that have been swallowed..We did find 2 Dead Triploid Rainbows with leaders hanging from there throats and 1 fish was over 8lbs.

I do feel that we need to address these issues to Keep this trophy Fishery going..I am really upset at what I have found and would like to have input on what we as fisherman can do to protect these fish..The rules at Rufus State: that if you use Bait or Scent, even if you release your fish, that when you catch 2, your limit has been reached and you are done fishing..
Please give me some input on this issue for I would like to see a Change for the future of Rufus Woods..Thanks

Are you suggesting no bait then? Or absolutely no C&R?

The way I see it the people who use bait and release are not breaking the law. It could be an assumption that they were releasing and still fishing past their two.

What I am seeing is that they are not just catching 2..they are catching small fish with bait and sneaking them back in..
I see this all the time..so I guess to your answer..I want to see a NO Bait Rule in affect..This will make it a better Fishery..Selective Gear also..would be good..Rufus Woods regulations have got to change to preserve a great fishery..

[racfish]

Ive been to Rufus twice only. First time I hauled my old Duroboat there in the snow and ice. We got there and the shore guys caught way more then the boaters. 2nd time I went with a friend and no boat and the boaters kicked butt.Its just how my luck runs. I like the no bait rules.Is it a two fish only now? Havent been in a long time now.That should mean no treble hooks either. The problem isnt making the rules but enforcing them. As it is now there arent any gamies around.

[G-Man]

Why not make it Selective gear only?
no bait, no barbs, no trebles...
I've only caught trout on selective gear rules, even in lakes that don't require it. It's not as difficult as one might think if you haven't tried it, and gives the fish a chance both in the fight, and in it's potential for healthy survival after the fight.

The problem with making the reservoir selective gear only is that it will impact the other fisheries such as walleye, bass, etc. On top of that, who is going enforce the regulation? If enforcement can't keep on top of people catching and releasing with bait, what's to say they can effectively keep folks from fishing with bait and barbed hooks?

Also, as there are other species of fish to be caught, what happens when you bag your two trout and pick up another trolling a worm harness for walleye?

Get some volunteers together to put up signage at all key access points and popular bank fishing spots in multiple languages that spell out the regulations, use pictures to make it even more obvious. Second, plaster the phone number of local enforcement all over the place to make sure someone responds when called. I recently talked with an enforcement agent, who readily provided us his card, and told us to call him first if we see a violation in progress in his jurisdiction as the hotline isn't that effective and response time isn't always good. Take pictures and video of violations, include license plate/vessel registration numbers, and provide them to enforcement.

[Lake Chelan Adventures]

Why not make it Selective gear only?
no bait, no barbs, no trebles...
I've only caught trout on selective gear rules, even in lakes that don't require it. It's not as difficult as one might think if you haven't tried it, and gives the fish a chance both in the fight, and in it's potential for healthy survival after the fight.

The problem with making the reservoir selective gear only is that it will impact the other fisheries such as walleye, bass, etc. On top of that, who is going enforce the regulation? If enforcement can't keep on top of people catching and releasing with bait, what's to say they can effectively keep folks from fishing with bait and barbed hooks?

Also, as there are other species of fish to be caught, what happens when you bag your two trout and pick up another trolling a worm harness for walleye?

Get some volunteers together to put up signage at all key access points and popular bank fishing spots in multiple languages that spell out the regulations, use pictures to make it even more obvious. Second, plaster the phone number of local enforcement all over the place to make sure someone responds when called. I recently talked with an enforcement agent, who readily provided us his card, and told us to call him first if we see a violation in progress in his jurisdiction as the hotline isn't that effective and response time isn't always good. Take pictures and video of violations, include license plate/vessel registration numbers, and provide them to enforcement.

Great response!!! The problem with taking down info is that there is no Cell service up at Rufus after the first 3 miles of the reservoir.. and a lot of the violators that I see are on the opposite side of the reservoir where agents cannot access because of Private land other than by vessel..
Posting signage would work for a while but this has been done in the past..signs disappeared...Yes I am aware of Lack of Enforcement state wide but don't you think that it would be a lot easier for a Enforcement officer to enforce a no bait rule than the current rules..This is a tough 1 for all..But all I know is that it just turns my stomach to see a 8lb. triploid Rainbow laying dead on the bottom with a Bait hook and line (15lb test Maxima Chameleon) hanging from the mouth..thanks for your input..

[chongo469]

Not having ever done this fishery myself, but I see it would affect all of the bank anglers who fish this fishery....I have seen more post and reports on this area from bank fishers than I have from boaters......I would hate to see any fishery prohibit catching opportunities to bankies or boaters so I am not sure a of a viable fix here.....Enforcement is the key, though I think a barbless rule would be ok for either fishing styles...

[Anglinarcher]

Wow, where to start?

I want to second the comments about impacting the Walleye fishermen, and to some extent the Small Mouth Bass fishermen, if we eliminate bait. The fact is that both species are in the lake, the entire river system now, and if we limit how they are caught then there numbers will grow and start to impact the trout.

Next, I want to agree that enforcement is the problem. How many fisheries do each of you know of where people are ignoring the limits, the methods, etc. Rules are intended to keep honest people honest. Dishonest people will always break the law. RW is on place where breaking the law is almost an art form. I worked on the lake lake for a few months replacing the can line cable a couple of years ago and I watched the "locals". It was so very common to watch many of them come down with three or four rods each, catch several fish, go home in the morning. Then, almost on cue, they would be back that afternoon to do it all over again. I think I saw the tribal enforcement one time, and they had no authority on the South side, so .............. Even when people only used one rod, they would catch their two, go home, drop the fish off, be back in an hour for two more.

Next, and I don't intend this to be a slam on Lake Chelan Adventures, but their comments that bait hooks left in the stomachs of fish kill the is simply ignorant of the facts - a result of living in Washington State too long.

Many studies have been done, in many states, and it has been proved time and time again that the hooks will not hurt the fish if certain precautions are taken.

First, leave about a foot of extra line so it drags along the side of the fish. This keeps the stomach entrance open for continued feeding.

Second, any fish bleeding from gills and/or stomach must not be released. This applies to bait or lure fishing equally, but I'll bet most of you still release bleeding fish when you are using lures and flies. Yes, even with barbless hooks and flies, I have had them take it all the way down. Pellet flies at RW are notorious for this.

Third, use only hooks that rust when fishing with bait. In other words, no stainless steel, no zinc or cadmium hooks, no anodized hooks, just plain old carbon hooks.

Fourth, do not use treble hooks for bait.

More fish die from poor handling at the net then die from properly released fish with hooks in their guts. Nevertheless, we live in Washington, and as such, we FOLLOW THE LAW. PERIOD. It is unfortunate that in Washington we choose to not educate the proper ways to C&R, let along the preferred ways to release a bait caught fish. Very unfortunate indeed!

YES, before it is even asked, I have caught numerous fish, in numerous states, that have had lures and bait hooks rusting out of guts and/or mouths. I have caught fish where the leader was just a tiny tug from releasing what was left, and the fish was still quite healthy. I have also caught fish with fresh hooks/leader in the guts, again healthy fish.

But, before this gets completely out of hand, I want to say it again, FOLLOW THE LAW. You catch two fish with bait at RW, your done. Our only hope of fixing the problem is for enforcement by the WDF&W to put somebody out there with authority from both the State and the Tribe to nail people. Then they need to publicize high fines and punishment for those caught. They need to hit the pens and they need to hit the area near the can line.

Making RW C&R only will not stop the locals. Making it selective rules only would only apply to state license holders only. You can buy a Tribal license and continue on with "their rules", so you would also need to get the tribe to agree. There is no solution to this problem other then enforcement, and has been stated before, without cell phone connections, fishermen turning in violators will have limited to NO impact. The state just doesn't roll that way.

[sickbayer]

stick a 10000 dollar fine on rule breakers that will cover the cost of a officer patrol.

[Lake Chelan Adventures]

Wow, where to start?

I want to second the comments about impacting the Walleye fishermen, and to some extent the Small Mouth Bass fishermen, if we eliminate bait. The fact is that both species are in the lake, the entire river system now, and if we limit how they are caught then there numbers will grow and start to impact the trout.

Next, I want to agree that enforcement is the problem. How many fisheries do each of you know of where people are ignoring the limits, the methods, etc. Rules are intended to keep honest people honest. Dishonest people will always break the law. RW is on place where breaking the law is almost an art form. I worked on the lake lake for a few months replacing the can line cable a couple of years ago and I watched the "locals". It was so very common to watch many of them come down with three or four rods each, catch several fish, go home in the morning. Then, almost on cue, they would be back that afternoon to do it all over again. I think I saw the tribal enforcement one time, and they had no authority on the South side, so .............. Even when people only used one rod, they would catch their two, go home, drop the fish off, be back in an hour for two more.

Next, and I don't intend this to be a slam on Lake Chelan Adventures, but their comments that bait hooks left in the stomachs of fish kill the is simply ignorant of the facts - a result of living in Washington State too long.

Many studies have been done, in many states, and it has been proved time and time again that the hooks will not hurt the fish if certain precautions are taken.

First, leave about a foot of extra line so it drags along the side of the fish. This keeps the stomach entrance open for continued feeding.

Second, any fish bleeding from gills and/or stomach must not be released. This applies to bait or lure fishing equally, but I'll bet most of you still release bleeding fish when you are using lures and flies. Yes, even with barbless hooks and flies, I have had them take it all the way down. Pellet flies at RW are notorious for this.

Third, use only hooks that rust when fishing with bait. In other words, no stainless steel, no zinc or cadmium hooks, no anodized hooks, just plain old carbon hooks.

Fourth, do not use treble hooks for bait.

More fish die from poor handling at the net then die from properly released fish with hooks in their guts. Nevertheless, we live in Washington, and as such, we FOLLOW THE LAW. PERIOD. It is unfortunate that in Washington we choose to not educate the proper ways to C&R, let along the preferred ways to release a bait caught fish. Very unfortunate indeed!

YES, before it is even asked, I have caught numerous fish, in numerous states, that have had lures and bait hooks rusting out of guts and/or mouths. I have caught fish where the leader was just a tiny tug from releasing what was left, and the fish was still quite healthy. I have also caught fish with fresh hooks/leader in the guts, again healthy fish.

But, before this gets completely out of hand, I want to say it again, FOLLOW THE LAW. You catch two fish with bait at RW, your done. Our only hope of fixing the problem is for enforcement by the WDF&W to put somebody out there with authority from both the State and the Tribe to nail people. Then they need to publicize high fines and punishment for those caught. They need to hit the pens and they need to hit the area near the can line.

Making RW C&R only will not stop the locals. Making it selective rules only would only apply to state license holders only. You can buy a Tribal license and continue on with "their rules", so you would also need to get the tribe to agree. There is no solution to this problem other then enforcement, and has been stated before, without cell phone connections, fishermen turning in violators will have limited to NO impact. The state just doesn't roll that way.

This is a Great Post!!!! Now for the hook issue mentioned...I have been Raising Trout for 18 yrs as a Hatchery worker and been fishing for 40 yrs and Guiding for 8 yrs....I do agree with you on the rusting of the hooks with some hooks..But the higher quality hooks produced now by Owner, Gamakatzu, Eagle Claw Laser and more has been proven to not rust out of fish as fast due to the coating used on the hooks..The older style Hooks would rust much faster than the hooks produced now a days..
You are right with what you are saying on Visual Blood on Trout..If my fish are hooked bad and blood is visible on my boat we retain that fish and do not release it..So I guess a Educational Fishing Seminar on how to release a fish Properly might be a great thing but I do agree with you on Lack of Enforcement..

[Bodofish]

Bottom line is Rufus is not a natural fishery and triploids do not breed (as a rule), they're a put and take fish. I'd hate to see it wasted as pufferstick fishery. The Tribe would probably stop planting if people weren't coming and spending money on the Res.. Sometimes I fish with bait sometimes not. I like the choice. If I'm looking for dinner then I may use bait and keep the fish I catch. If I'm looking for Walter, no bait (I've seen a 30+ pounder harvested). The problem is in enforcement. Every time at the lake I see (insert ESL person) taking way over the limit and there are also folks using pb and C&R all day long. I've started taking pictures because when I point out they are breaking the law they just look at me like I'm from some other planet..... Comprende? Actually the C&R guys are just folks who think they're above the law and I couldn't possibly kill a fish with a hook. They're going to keep on fishing till they get a big one. The other group I see with little to no regard for the rules are tribal members. They know Officer Billy Wolf is not going to write them up for any infraction and lord knows they don't want to take home a small one. I've seen it too many times fishing in the prominent spots. And then there are the fly guys and the trollers. Fly guys, use a rod big enough to get the fish in with out and hour fight and trollers..... How many fish have you dragged behind the boat for 20 minutes. That equals dead fish.

Education and enforcement.

Selective fishery, not for my millions of tax dollars.

[Bodofish]

PS: Selective gear would rule out running the CustomWeld...... Careful what you ask for......

[wolverine]

No bait, no scent, barbless hooks. I've never used bait there and have always done well on both trips and walleye. I've caught trips casting jigs, spinners, plugs, and spoons. Trolling for trips with swimming wooly buggers, spinners, small plugs, and spoons. I've caught most of my walleye jigging but have also caught a bunch trolling plugs. My favorite trip rigging is still a cast fly.
There are far too many bait fishermen who "high grade" their trips trying for the 10+ pounders. I've fished both sides of the pond from dam to dam. It is discouraging to see dead trips on the bottom with half their faces and gills ripped out or dead fish with a piece of mono hanging out their mouth.

[crankbait42]

[akochman09]

I would say its a good law, the one on bait. but at the same time, people need to be smart. obviously if a fish is lip hooked its fine. if it swallows it, then like said, if it isn't bleeding then its releaseable. I would also say that when trolling, fish rarely swallow bait. I would say that if your trolling with bait, you should be allowed to release a fish and not count it towards your limit, but at the same time, also use good judgement. I dont think ive ever had a fish swallow bait while trolling simply because the bait is going too fast. All in all, I would say that good judgement is the big factor. fishermen should be smart when fishing and deciding if a fish will live.

[Malottguy]

I rarely chime in on matters such as this, but this is one time I will just because I fish this lake almost every weekend and I use bait. I also use spinners, jigs and once in awhile a fly.

I myself have caught dead fish. I mean literally dead. Also I see very few floaters or even dead ones along shore as you do in small lakes. In part I think other fish and birds deal with this so we WONT see them. But of the dead ones I have seen or caught they had large hooks in their throats. I am talking 2/0 size and the the line that was attached is in the 25# range. Why such heavy line? and last one I seen dead like this had a beer can attached to the line. Also most fish I catch even with powerbait are hooked in the corner of the mouth. Maybe I pay a little more attention to my rod, but even if they are hooked in the mouth I keep them as per the LAW.

Then there are the ones that do release fish when using bait. This irks me to no end because I am a lawful person and try my best to follow the rules. I and my friends KEEP all fish we catch on bait up to our limit of TWO then we stop. I have more than once caught my two and just sat back to watch the others fish. I take pictures etc. to pass the time and feel content I limited out and just enjoy the scenery. Same goes for who I fish with, if they limit out then time to do other things but not fish.

The last time I have seen a Game officer there was more than two years ago. Yes I realize there are fewer of them, but this is one of the most popular fisheries in the state. So putting two and two together says pop over there once in awhile to check. I asked a game official last fall why they don't he told me that they are more concerned about the main stem of the Columbia and the laws being broke against steelhead and salmon, which in some ways I understand as this is a put and take fishery, but as said it is also a trophy one.

There are no real easy answers to this question. Though I would agree that a barbless option be a good one and maybe get rid of trebles with bait. What it does however come down to fisherman ethics and the ability to follow the law. It is also up to each of us to help police one another. If you see someone breaking the law write down plate numbers, descriptions and if possible pictures. If some pressure is put on the law breakers they eventually do move on to another place. If you see someone who doesn't know the law help them by telling them politely what they have done wrong. If the argue then they are ignorant and probably know they have done wrong, so get the info and turn them in.

Final moral is we are all a family of fisherman(woman) and need to help each other become more responsible members of that family.

[Lake Chelan Adventures]

Thanks so much Mallotguy for adding your input on this Subject...We all know that there needs to be a change there to keep Rufus at the top of the List of 1 of the most unbelievable fisheries in the World today for larger rainbow Trout...